...

BushDawg wrote:

Seems to me that there is no legal authority behind these actions. I know that a response may be that it is a "Lawful Order" but I accept no law by man higher than the Constitution. This to me would be un-Constitutional and a violation of my personal rights as recognized by the Country Founders and our Creator.

Yep, I was actually wondering the same thing. I would assume the lawful order rule would cover the cop but Im not sure. I'll ask around and see if I can find the answer

Great topic, Norm. I wonder if they just rely on people to accept their authority and assume people will surrender their arms. I wonder what the response would have been had Mike said no... ;)

alanzona wrote:Great topic, Norm. I wonder if they just rely on people to accept their authority and assume people will surrender their arms. I wonder what the response would have been had Mike said no... ;)

My guess at that point would be that they would place him in handcuffs until the time came that they were able to discern his identity and make sure that their situation was as safe as possible.

I really don't see it as a violation of our civil rights. I just see it as a precautionary measure on their part. If I was a cop and walked up on an entire group of people in the forest of which one was openly armed I would ask for the firearm also to keep myself and my partner safe. I would imagine that anytime someone gets pulled over with a firearm in their possession also the officer will keep hold of it until the traffic stop is complete.

...

Ive been reading on AZ shooting that several encounters with LEO they just said thanks for informing them that you are armed and to please keep your hands away from your gun

The traffic stop or encounter then went its normal course

Well especially in Mike's particular scenario I don't care how fast anyone thinks they are on the draw. If a person "representing" law enforcement walks up with an automatic rifle in their hands you aren't going to get a shot off before they do. Also if the same instance is occuring in the desert or forest and you draw on them as they are approaching you then doubly bad scenario's are going to unfold. No matter what if you don't want to be dead or best case in cuffs it's going to be appropriate for you to announce to them that you are in fact armed before they find that out themselves and then follow their instructions to make the encounter go as smooth as possible.

I understand all points raised.

For me, it's just simple.
I don't have limo tinting on my driver or passenger side windows b/c I understand the legalities and how unsafe the tint is for approaching cops. They need to know who they're dealing with and whether they're friend or foe immediately. To not do so would and will at some point put their lives in immediate danger. In incidences where their credentals are apparent, there is no reason for my uncompliance in excersises that keep them safe.

Skatchkins wrote:n incidences where their credentals are apparent, there is no reason for my uncompliance in excersises that keep them safe.

would you volunteer to let them search you car if they asked?

offroadaz wrote:would you volunteer to let them search you car if they asked?

Not I said the fat man.

That's a negative. Even cops will tell you to decline. But not searching w/o probable cause doesn't put them in danger.

Well let me start by saying, without a search warrant or probable cause, I would never let anyone search my vehicle. I do have a CCW Permit, and I have been autrhorized by the department of public saftey to carry a concealed weapon in the state of arizona. However whenever I get pulled over, that is the first thing I tell the officer, in fact I had him the permit with my drivers license and most of them are thankful for that. I think we as society give cops a certain amount of authority to use there personal discretion, because we understand that there job is difficult and dangerous. However I was pulled over recently for taking a left turn to wide (who would of thought a wide turn in a jeep) and I felt that I was treated like a criminal. I filled a compaint about the officer to the city of peoria. He was extremely rude, and I didn't even do anything wrong I haven't even had a ticket in 4 years. Ever since the DHS Labeled us all "right wing terrorists" I think things are going to change, and not for the better. But I always say you want my guns, you'll get the bullets first.

You are going to fit in well here ;) :cool)

thank you kind sir. I think so too

I've been lucky. I've never had a cop be a dick to me even when I was carrying.